The failures of Black Lives Matter Chicago, Ibram X. Kendi, gender-switching doctors and impotent Scottish transactivists suggest common sense may be at the gates. Finally.
I stumbled upon your blog from Freddie deBoer's subscriber writing post. I know this is probably a waste of time but I wish you would be a little more open minded about trans people. For most of us it's really very simple: we want to be addressed and treated as the gender we identify with, the same as cis people are most of the time addressed and treated as the gender they identify with. We pursue medical treatment in order to shape our bodies into a form we like better and live more happy lives. In doing so, the only people we might hurt are ourselves. We might hurt close friends and family who may have expected we live as our assigned gender for the rest of our lives, but just as you wouldn't force a loved one to pursue a career or remain in a relationship they were unhappy with and made them depressed, you wouldn't force a loved one to live as a gender they are unhappy with. And in the vast majority of the time, that works. Yes, there *are* people who regret transitioning. But they are a very small minority and it should be noted that some fraction of people detransition because of transphobia: because they feel ostracized or marginalized or fetishized and to them it's worth it to suffer gender dysphoria than to feel as if you are constantly under attack. Personally, I am much much happier since transitioning. I feel like I am able to have real emotions, to have real friendships, real relationships, and I feel so much more confident. I used to have pretty bad social anxiety (and worse things) but that almost completely disappeared after transitioning. So I'm just asking to have a little empathy: we're just people trying to feel better in our own bodies and in the world, trying our best.
Hey Julia, thanks for commenting. If you're happier being a woman *more power to ya*! I don't care what other people do, how they present, as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I haven't met a transwoman yet I haven't liked although I did notice 30 years ago that they could be a little self-obsessed (which is different from narcissism...self-obsessed people just tend to be wrapped up in their own problems rather than expect to the world to go along with them). Still, good peeps to know (one has since moved away from trans and gone with hermaphrodite although she still identifies as a woman).
My issue with transfolk is only the ones who demand the rest of the world go along with them, and worse, push themselves into places they don't belong. Sorry, but male bodies don't belong on female sports teams, nor in women's private changing spaces. The bathroom issue is really pretty simple: If you absolutely, positively can't use the male bathroom then a third bathroom should be a good solution. People born female grow up in a way those born male just don't seem to understand: We spend our *entire lives* learning to guard against male predation, and like with male-identified males, we don't know who's dangerous and who's not. Transwomen will *never* be like natal women and it's ridiculous of transactivists to fight it; what if women accepted 98% of what you want instead of 100%? Aren't you better off than if we reviled you entirely?
And of course, if you pass so well we see you in the loo and don't know you used to be a man, keep your mouth shut and we'll never know ;)
I'm really quite suspicious of those who *demand* we accept them in *private areas* so aggressively. I'm the kind of person who will take you as you want to be as long as you respect my privacy and safety. The ones who simply refuse to acknowledge that women's safety is just as important as natal male feelings seem pretty suspiciously like there's another agenda in place. Like sexual fetishism or a desire to force women to do male bidding (again).
I mean, you're never going to get *everyone* on board with your identity, and no one else gets that stat either. We all piss off or annoy *someone*, for stupid reasons, based on who we are. That's life. It strikes me that transwomen who are *that* aggressive about pushing themselves in places *where they make women feel extremely uncomfortable* are the ones who need to change, not us.
With a little bit of discussion, debate, and compromise, and better behaviour from certain trans reps who have the manners and personality of a wounded warthog, we're all going to get along much better. Otherwise, rock on as a chick as much as you want. Live how you want to live, love who you want to love, just remember that your feelings aren't the only ones in the world.
Thanks for the response. I have no strong opinion either way on trans women in sports so I can't speak to that.
Private changing spaces/bathrooms are hard. It's all well and good to say that a third bathroom or locker room should be an option and I agree. But let's be pragmatic: millions of business and public buildings today only have two bathrooms and we're not going to remodel them all anytime soon. There has to be a solution that everyone can live with, today.
I object to the framing of "male bodies in women's spaces". For one, this discounts trans women who have to transitioned to that extent, for all intents and purposes (except for menstruation, reproduction, and chromosomes) their bodies are indistinguishable from cisgender women. And it's important to note here that those three exceptions are not universal for cis women: there are women who are infertile or have had hysterectomies or who have chromosomal or genital abnormalities. And honestly the solution to "just pass" is not a real solution. There are many trans women who don't pass, and the ones who do pass don't want to live their lives essentially back in the closet, in fear of being outed and treated as a sexual predator just because they were assigned male at birth.
But I'm getting aside from the point. The incessant focus on trans women in women's bathrooms is just transmisogyny at play. No one ever raises a storm about trans men in men's bathrooms. Not only that, but what happens when you have a trans man who presents as male encouraged to go into the women's bathroom because he was assigned female at birth? That's a sticky situation that people don't realize will occur.
Trans women can also be victims of sexual violence as well! And for what it's worth, though it's not necessary for the argument, we are *disproportionately* victims of sexual violence. If I go into the men's bathroom, people will simply think I'm in the wrong place. For what it's worth, I think the concept of "passing" is incredibly harmful to the trans community but I'll just say I'm often, but not always, gendered as female. But I also am 6 feet tall and have some masculine features in my body and people do occasionally clock me. This is all to say, I think I am completely justified in fearing sexual violence from men if I walked into the men's bathroom.
But in all honesty, I fear violence from men just on the street much more than in bathrooms. Just because I lived for a part of my life as a boy does not mean I don't now know the fear of having a man catcall me or the fear of having a man slip something in my drink out at a bar. On top of that, when men see me as a trans women, many make assumptions that I'm hypersexual, or that I crave male attention, or that my body is an object to be fetishized. You wouldn't believe half the messages I've received online (ok, to be fair they were on Grindr lol, but still!!). Even if you don't believe I'm a woman, the man leering at me on the street or in the locker room certainly does! And I agree that women's safety is important. But I am also a woman and I deserve the same respect that cis women get.
I agree with your point that you'll never get everyone to agree or accept any one particular thing. But there's a big difference between being assaulted or called slurs or hatefully misgendered or being told you don't exist and someone privately disagreeing with your way of life but being polite. Personally, I privately disagree with all religion but I still accept that religious people exist and are for the most part, nice and respectful people.
Listen, if you want to be safe in the bathroom, third bathrooms are the way to go. While gay men use the men's loo all the time, I can see how a transwoman might be more at risk. I think we have enough transpeople now that it makes sense to just do a third bathroom. Everyone's happy! Homophobic men (because transphobia is really just slightly different homophobia) won't be dealing with transwomen, transwomen will be safe, and so will biological women. I disagree on the transmisogyny; we're not afraid of you because you're transwomen, we're afraid of you because so many of you are more male between the ears than you may even be between the legs. Many transwomen give themselves away by thinking, acting, and talking like men. So do transmen; I listened to a discussion by four quite convincing-looking transmen who I wouldn't have known were bio females if I hadn't known it up front. But...later in the discussion, the female thinking came out and I thought, yeah, they're still chicks.
Look, there's virtually no difference in criminality between male-identified men and transwomen. The research bears that out. We women don't have to justify why you don't belong in our bathrooms and changing rooms; if you're dickless that's awesome, but we can't do genital checks obviously and while it's not known how many TWs have gone with bottom surgery it's widely believed to be 95%+ haven't. And I'm sorry, that damn dangler just creates TOO many problems for bio women. Y'all want to be women, fine...everywhere you want but stay out of where you don't belong. If you can put one over on us because you're so convincing, yay for you. No one will care as long as you're not parading your dick around like that asshole in the Wii spa in San Fran a few years ago, or installing cameras, or sexually assaulting anyone.
I don't think you're 'disproportionately' victims of sexual violence, although it may be higher than normal because as I understand it, working as a prostitute seems to be a 'milestone' many seem to think they need to pass through in their journey from m2f. I frankly don't understand this and it's evidence to me of further male thinking - AFAIK f2m don't feel the need to do this, but I suspect more males than females find it a turn-on. Most female sex workers don't want to be doing it and don't find it nearly as 'empowering' as misogynist propaganda would have it. So, being a sex worker definitely increases one's likelihood of being sexually assaulted. Most of the rest of it comes from the same place women experience it: Male partners. Not nearly as many TWs are murdered by strangers, same as women. It does happen but the best way to get murdered, whichever sort of woman you are, is to choose an asshole for a partner. I've got a whole category on my blog about how not to get abused.
As for leering men and hypersexuality, well, welcome to our world! You wanted to be a woman, this is what you signed up for. My friend and I were hypersexualized in Turkey when we visited, because we were unescorted by men, ergo we were Western whores (she ran into it similarly in Egypt). Greek men are also big on leering. I've been racially fetishized by Indian & Middle Eastern men since I moved to Toronto. And yeah, you're going to get hypersexualized by men who have a thing for transgenders - that porn's been popular for decades, I remember the 'shemale' stuff you could get on computer BBS's in the pre-Internet days. I only ever downloaded one or two out of curiosity (I've never been into porn) but I know it's a big fetish for a lot of men, and TG porn is one of the most popular searches everywhere.
What we tend to mean when we say that trans identities are erased or treated as if we don't exist is when people treat us as if we are our assigned gender at birth. That is, that trans women are actually men in disguise and trans men are actually women in disguise. So basically what your entire first paragraph is doing. Emphasizing "biological femininity/masculinity" is part of this as well. Perhaps you would like to mean chromosomal status? As in whether or not people have XX or XY chromosomes? Personally I've never had my DNA tested so I can't say for certain what chromosomes I have Admittedly it seems likely that I have XY chromosomes but you never know. Chromosomal abnormalities are more likely than you think, on the order of about 1%. Otherwise, the only "biological" characteristics that separate me from cisgender women are the fact that I dont menstruate, the fact that I can't become pregnant (although womb transplants for trans women are coming.... stay tuned), and the fact that I don't have ovaries. There are plenty of cisgender women who have had hysterectomies or are sterile or don't menstruate, etc. and yet we don't try to say they are not in fact women or that they are some weird third gender/sex. We might call them sterilewomen if we wanted to be really rude and emphasize that they are different from the average. Or we could be respectful and refer to them as "women who have gone through menopause", or "women who cannot get pregnant", or "women who are sterile".
Ok, about criminality now. I could dispute your interpretation of "The Swedish Study" from 2011 which is what I believe you are referencing as it's the only thing I can really find online about the criminality of trans people. But I don't think that's even necessary, and I'll make my point by analogy. It's no great mystery that black people commit crimes at higher rates than white people. This is not because they are worse people, or "inherently predisposed to crime" or anything like that. It's probably mostly just because of socioeconomic disparities between black and white people coupled with fact that poorer people tend to commit more crime than richer people. Obviously it's more complicated than that but for this purpose we'll leave it there. With that out of the way: we don't (anymore....) force black people to use a separate bathroom from white people. It's disrespectful and inhumane. Why force trans women to use a separate bathroom from cis women?
>I don't think you're 'disproportionately' victims of sexual violence, although it may be higher than normal because as I understand it
Quick google search shows that trans people are in fact disproportionately victims of violent crime.
Admittedly, here I'm conflating "violent crime" with "sexual crime" but a more thorough google search would prove my point and I think it's unnecessary.
>Working as a prostitute seems to be a 'milestone' many seem to think they need to pass through in their journey from m2f... I suspect more [trans women] than [trans men] find it a turn-on. Most female sex workers don't want to be doing it and don't find it nearly as 'empowering' as misogynist propaganda would have it.
I have two responses to this: one, there is a big difference between sex work that's mostly done online through an onlyfans kind of thing and sex work that's mostly done offline through meeting clients. I know both people who have done or are currently doing either of those. And I would agree with your sense that in general there seems to be surprisingly large fraction of trans women who engage in or want to engage in the former (online) work. Personally, I think it's partially a reaction to the really jarring change that comes from living part of your life as a man where on average you are deemed undesirable and the in general pursuer of romantic or sexual interactions, and after transitioning trans women very quickly find themselves desirable and in general pursued by others in a romantic or sexual context. So yes, maybe they do find it a turn-on, and that's ok!! But it's pretty hard to be sexually assaulted as a sex worker when your sex work consists of posting nudes on your twitter timeline.
With that said, doing sex work in person sucks. Yeah, it's maybe convenient that you get to choose your own hours, and if you're a professional dominatrix maybe you're a little bit more in control when meeting clients, but that's about it. Many trans people are forced into sex work because they are unable to find full-time work due to discrimination or because they may be unable to cite their pretransition work experience in fear of outing themselves or being accused of fraud if they changed their name. On top of that, many trans people find themselves without parental support which makes a job hunt a whole lot easier. Sex work is the work of last resort for trans people, particularly outside of the US or Canada or parts of Europe, which tend to be more accepting. Personally, I am afraid for my friends who do sex work in person and wish they could enter another profession but it's not that easy.
You touch upon exactly what makes you forever male, at least down deep: Your *gamete*, which, if you have XY chromosomes (if you were born with a penis you're XY) means your body was designed to reproduce by impregnating females. I was born with a vadge & the usual equipment that goes with baby-making; but I intentionally never had a baby, and am now menopausal yet I am still female. And that's what makes transfolk different: Transmen still may get pregnant, or could, but even if they can't via their transition, that's what their bodies were designed for and they'll never produce the sperm they'd need to impregnate someone (I'm not even clear on how well manufactured penii work, anyway - I know they're not always very good for having sex, or enjoying sex, same for repurposed vaginas).
I accept your definition of 'erasing' although I don't think that flies across the board. I think for many transactivists, they go on about 'erasing' transpeople to deflect attention from their very real efforts to erase women via ludicrous language ("people who menstruate" - no, only females menstruate, no transwoman does) and efforts to force women to accept male bodies where they don't belong (we'll just have to agree to disagree on that). If you really think not being allowed in female bathrooms 'erases' you, that's your problem, not ours. You are still a biological man and if you're a big galoot like Will 'Lia' Thomas, you're a huge threat to anyone who doesn't know you. (I intentionally properly gender Will Thomas because I think he's a rank opportunist trying to get to the Olympics via beating a bunch of girls because he sucks in male competition. Also, he's a 6'3" clear male with a dick he *knows* his teammates find threatening. Which he can't understand because *he is a male and males don't understand what it's like growing up female and never will*.
That said, I can take people as they are or want to be as long as they don't try to step on my toes. We all have our self-images we wish others would go along with: I have friends who think they're liberal when in fact they're illiberal; I know tons of fake Christians; I go along with my good friend's daughter's identity as non-binary, and her wife as female, *because I like them*. Even if I didn't know them well, I would go along with it just because it's no skin off my nose how they identify. I'm far less understanding and accepting of fake Christians for the same reason I intensely dislike transactivism: These beliefs and practices harm others. Some of my fake Christian friends claim Christianity but don't walk the walk; but they don't harm others. Now I challenge fake Christians on social media if they support Donald Trump. I also challenge fake liberals who support Hamas's Islamofascism and delight in pointing out to these Nazi-obsessed fake liberals that they have rather a lot in common with Nazis: They wanted to exterminate Jews too.
Which brings me back to my point about 'erasing' transpeople: People, esp on the left, love to project onto others what they prefer (subconsciously) to avoid in themselves, which in this case is their commonality with *some* elements of Nazism; this also includes a love affair with censorship and destroying anyone who doesn't buy into their Holy Dogma.
Same with transfolk and the 'erasure' thing. A lot of these TAs are actively trying to erase womanhood and femaleness so they can argue they belong in places they don't because--sexual fetishism, and possibly a political desire to roll back the gains of feminism.
Now, I can see why you'd think you're 'erased' by 'misgendering' or perhaps 'deadnaming' you. But that's still on *you*. You live on a planet with 8 billion people and you will never be liked, loved, or accepted by all you meet. Even the Dalai Lama has enemies and he is pretty arguably one of the nicest, kindest, most humane people on the planet.
I could pitch a fuss if I wanted to every time a man disrespected me or shouted me down or mansplained; many women, including feminists, allow this to happen. I've developed the resilience to laugh it off, shrug it off, or tell him to STFU. It's *my* job to manage *my* emotions and feelings; it's a Big Lie of the left that feelings are other peoples' burden to manage.
So honestly, Julia, if you *allow* people to make you feel less-than if they use the wrong pronouns, then it's on *you* to learn how to deal with it. They're probably *trying* to denigrate you, so piss them off by not losing your mind. Or, they might simply feel they have to speak truth, and if they believe you're not intrinsically a man, they may insist on calling you he/him.
You can't change them, only yourself.
As for the bathroom stuff, racially separated bathrooms were *always* about sending a message that black people were 'less than', as were the fountains and all that (who ever got assaulted by a black person while taking a drink? We don't separate bathrooms racially anymore because it's discriminatory. But we don't allow black men in ladies' rooms, not because they're black but because they're men. And the research I refer to is a growing pile of research on the higher potential for violence in men. Very little changes in that regard with transition. I'll dig up the link I usually use when I reference it in my work if you like. Today I'm off to the States for Thanksgiving so I may not be around here for the next few days but I do like talking to you, you're interesting.
And if by some weird stroke of coincidence we ever met up, I'd treat you as a woman. Might even not care if we used the ladies' together if I thought you weren't dangerous. Hey, there are male friends I'd sleep in the same room with because I know they're not dangerous; I would never agree to that with strange men or ones I didn't know well unless there were other women in the room. That's something you still don't understand because it's easier to change your body than your brain, and your brain IS rife with male neurocircuitry. But that's a convo for after the holiday :) Hope you have a great Thanksgiving!
I think that the idea of people being "forever male" or "forever female" is restrictive and not helpful. And these categories are socially constructed, so we can change them whenever we want. But for the sake of argument I'll use them. These categories refer to chromosomal sex, not gender. Gender happens when people look at or otherwise perceive another person and read them as a man or woman. Chromosomal sex and gender are obviously highly correlated but one does not determine the other. When you walk past someone on the street and gender them as male or female, you don't see their chromosomes; you usually don't see their genitalia. It's all just their secondary sex characteristics and to a lesser extent outfit and mannerisms.
It also doesn't really mean anything to say people were "designed" for one purpose or another. Unless you're religious, in which case it's reasonable to say that people were designed to worship god or whatever, that's fine. But I'm an atheist and I believe that people have no essential purpose just by being born -- we exist first and then we create meaning and purpose for ourselves. And, if we take our evolutionary imperatives to their natural conclusions, I think we'll live in a world that would not be very fun. No birth control and a whole lot more sexual assault. Our purpose would just be: make as many offspring as physically possible by whatever means necessary. I choose to believe that people are capable of nobler pursuits.
I sympathize with your point that new language such as "pregnant people" seems like it may erase women. But this language isn't made to accommodate trans women, it's made to accommodate trans men. Trans men can get pregnant and menstruate, and in situations where we want to say something about people who menstruate, e.g. "Free tampons/pads for all people who menstruate!" we don't want to limit that to cis women. Trans men shouldn't be excluded. We can also think of other examples that usually go the other way: "people get prostate cancer", "people who ejaculate", "people who have a penis". These statements may seem like they erase men, but if we say instead "only men get prostate cancer", we exclude trans women.
I won't address your point about Lia Thomas because I've already said that I don't have strong opinions about trans women in women's sports.
I don't need to be loved or even liked by most people. I'm really just asking to be accepted. We like to think of America as a liberal country, where many different kinds of people can live together even though they may privately disagree with each other. And that's what acceptance is. It's not harassing someone on the street because they look gay or muslim or christian or black. Now I know that that may be a tall order in the world we live in, for trans people to not be harassed on the street. But it's a pretty basic goal that I think all liberal people can get on board with.
Back to the bathroom stuff...: isn't excluding trans people from their preferred bathrooms *also* about sending a message that trans people are "less than"? That we are less female than cis women. Or that trans men are less male than cis men. And I use that in the gendered sense, not the sexual sense. Having ovaries or testicles doesn't make you less female or male than anyone else, as hard as that is to wrap your head around. I want to use the words "feminine" or "masculine" perhaps but there exist very masculine women and vice versa so language limits me here. I'm fine with not allowing men in women's restrooms and vice versa! But the stopping point here is that I believe trans women are women and trans men are men and I think you disagree with that fundamental point.
By the way, I would like to see the link that you referred to.
You continue to amaze me with your “Let ‘‘em have it” attitude. Nobody can escape your censure unless they adhere to genuine humanist and common sense values. You might look extreme to some, but one day, if we all wake up to something resembling reality, we will be considering ideas like yours. Then the true discussion can begin.
The gloves are off with the woke and it's mano-a-mano now that so many of them support mass slaughter. It amazes me, after their years of Nazi obsession, identifying anyone who disagrees with them as a Nazi, that they have met the enemy and he is them. You'd think their scientifically bankrupt, feminist-uncritical acceptance of transgender pablum would have done flagged wokeism for the dangerous idiotology it is, but no. What I want them to grasp is that it's never been just right wing nuts who resisted and challenged rhem; many on the left have too, quietly, because these dangerous progressive fascists had too much power to destroy. Now we see them for what they are: The enemy in the mirror. We hate most in others what we hate in ourselves.
I stumbled upon your blog from Freddie deBoer's subscriber writing post. I know this is probably a waste of time but I wish you would be a little more open minded about trans people. For most of us it's really very simple: we want to be addressed and treated as the gender we identify with, the same as cis people are most of the time addressed and treated as the gender they identify with. We pursue medical treatment in order to shape our bodies into a form we like better and live more happy lives. In doing so, the only people we might hurt are ourselves. We might hurt close friends and family who may have expected we live as our assigned gender for the rest of our lives, but just as you wouldn't force a loved one to pursue a career or remain in a relationship they were unhappy with and made them depressed, you wouldn't force a loved one to live as a gender they are unhappy with. And in the vast majority of the time, that works. Yes, there *are* people who regret transitioning. But they are a very small minority and it should be noted that some fraction of people detransition because of transphobia: because they feel ostracized or marginalized or fetishized and to them it's worth it to suffer gender dysphoria than to feel as if you are constantly under attack. Personally, I am much much happier since transitioning. I feel like I am able to have real emotions, to have real friendships, real relationships, and I feel so much more confident. I used to have pretty bad social anxiety (and worse things) but that almost completely disappeared after transitioning. So I'm just asking to have a little empathy: we're just people trying to feel better in our own bodies and in the world, trying our best.
Hey Julia, thanks for commenting. If you're happier being a woman *more power to ya*! I don't care what other people do, how they present, as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I haven't met a transwoman yet I haven't liked although I did notice 30 years ago that they could be a little self-obsessed (which is different from narcissism...self-obsessed people just tend to be wrapped up in their own problems rather than expect to the world to go along with them). Still, good peeps to know (one has since moved away from trans and gone with hermaphrodite although she still identifies as a woman).
My issue with transfolk is only the ones who demand the rest of the world go along with them, and worse, push themselves into places they don't belong. Sorry, but male bodies don't belong on female sports teams, nor in women's private changing spaces. The bathroom issue is really pretty simple: If you absolutely, positively can't use the male bathroom then a third bathroom should be a good solution. People born female grow up in a way those born male just don't seem to understand: We spend our *entire lives* learning to guard against male predation, and like with male-identified males, we don't know who's dangerous and who's not. Transwomen will *never* be like natal women and it's ridiculous of transactivists to fight it; what if women accepted 98% of what you want instead of 100%? Aren't you better off than if we reviled you entirely?
And of course, if you pass so well we see you in the loo and don't know you used to be a man, keep your mouth shut and we'll never know ;)
I'm really quite suspicious of those who *demand* we accept them in *private areas* so aggressively. I'm the kind of person who will take you as you want to be as long as you respect my privacy and safety. The ones who simply refuse to acknowledge that women's safety is just as important as natal male feelings seem pretty suspiciously like there's another agenda in place. Like sexual fetishism or a desire to force women to do male bidding (again).
I mean, you're never going to get *everyone* on board with your identity, and no one else gets that stat either. We all piss off or annoy *someone*, for stupid reasons, based on who we are. That's life. It strikes me that transwomen who are *that* aggressive about pushing themselves in places *where they make women feel extremely uncomfortable* are the ones who need to change, not us.
With a little bit of discussion, debate, and compromise, and better behaviour from certain trans reps who have the manners and personality of a wounded warthog, we're all going to get along much better. Otherwise, rock on as a chick as much as you want. Live how you want to live, love who you want to love, just remember that your feelings aren't the only ones in the world.
Thanks for the response. I have no strong opinion either way on trans women in sports so I can't speak to that.
Private changing spaces/bathrooms are hard. It's all well and good to say that a third bathroom or locker room should be an option and I agree. But let's be pragmatic: millions of business and public buildings today only have two bathrooms and we're not going to remodel them all anytime soon. There has to be a solution that everyone can live with, today.
I object to the framing of "male bodies in women's spaces". For one, this discounts trans women who have to transitioned to that extent, for all intents and purposes (except for menstruation, reproduction, and chromosomes) their bodies are indistinguishable from cisgender women. And it's important to note here that those three exceptions are not universal for cis women: there are women who are infertile or have had hysterectomies or who have chromosomal or genital abnormalities. And honestly the solution to "just pass" is not a real solution. There are many trans women who don't pass, and the ones who do pass don't want to live their lives essentially back in the closet, in fear of being outed and treated as a sexual predator just because they were assigned male at birth.
But I'm getting aside from the point. The incessant focus on trans women in women's bathrooms is just transmisogyny at play. No one ever raises a storm about trans men in men's bathrooms. Not only that, but what happens when you have a trans man who presents as male encouraged to go into the women's bathroom because he was assigned female at birth? That's a sticky situation that people don't realize will occur.
Trans women can also be victims of sexual violence as well! And for what it's worth, though it's not necessary for the argument, we are *disproportionately* victims of sexual violence. If I go into the men's bathroom, people will simply think I'm in the wrong place. For what it's worth, I think the concept of "passing" is incredibly harmful to the trans community but I'll just say I'm often, but not always, gendered as female. But I also am 6 feet tall and have some masculine features in my body and people do occasionally clock me. This is all to say, I think I am completely justified in fearing sexual violence from men if I walked into the men's bathroom.
But in all honesty, I fear violence from men just on the street much more than in bathrooms. Just because I lived for a part of my life as a boy does not mean I don't now know the fear of having a man catcall me or the fear of having a man slip something in my drink out at a bar. On top of that, when men see me as a trans women, many make assumptions that I'm hypersexual, or that I crave male attention, or that my body is an object to be fetishized. You wouldn't believe half the messages I've received online (ok, to be fair they were on Grindr lol, but still!!). Even if you don't believe I'm a woman, the man leering at me on the street or in the locker room certainly does! And I agree that women's safety is important. But I am also a woman and I deserve the same respect that cis women get.
I agree with your point that you'll never get everyone to agree or accept any one particular thing. But there's a big difference between being assaulted or called slurs or hatefully misgendered or being told you don't exist and someone privately disagreeing with your way of life but being polite. Personally, I privately disagree with all religion but I still accept that religious people exist and are for the most part, nice and respectful people.
Listen, if you want to be safe in the bathroom, third bathrooms are the way to go. While gay men use the men's loo all the time, I can see how a transwoman might be more at risk. I think we have enough transpeople now that it makes sense to just do a third bathroom. Everyone's happy! Homophobic men (because transphobia is really just slightly different homophobia) won't be dealing with transwomen, transwomen will be safe, and so will biological women. I disagree on the transmisogyny; we're not afraid of you because you're transwomen, we're afraid of you because so many of you are more male between the ears than you may even be between the legs. Many transwomen give themselves away by thinking, acting, and talking like men. So do transmen; I listened to a discussion by four quite convincing-looking transmen who I wouldn't have known were bio females if I hadn't known it up front. But...later in the discussion, the female thinking came out and I thought, yeah, they're still chicks.
Look, there's virtually no difference in criminality between male-identified men and transwomen. The research bears that out. We women don't have to justify why you don't belong in our bathrooms and changing rooms; if you're dickless that's awesome, but we can't do genital checks obviously and while it's not known how many TWs have gone with bottom surgery it's widely believed to be 95%+ haven't. And I'm sorry, that damn dangler just creates TOO many problems for bio women. Y'all want to be women, fine...everywhere you want but stay out of where you don't belong. If you can put one over on us because you're so convincing, yay for you. No one will care as long as you're not parading your dick around like that asshole in the Wii spa in San Fran a few years ago, or installing cameras, or sexually assaulting anyone.
I don't think you're 'disproportionately' victims of sexual violence, although it may be higher than normal because as I understand it, working as a prostitute seems to be a 'milestone' many seem to think they need to pass through in their journey from m2f. I frankly don't understand this and it's evidence to me of further male thinking - AFAIK f2m don't feel the need to do this, but I suspect more males than females find it a turn-on. Most female sex workers don't want to be doing it and don't find it nearly as 'empowering' as misogynist propaganda would have it. So, being a sex worker definitely increases one's likelihood of being sexually assaulted. Most of the rest of it comes from the same place women experience it: Male partners. Not nearly as many TWs are murdered by strangers, same as women. It does happen but the best way to get murdered, whichever sort of woman you are, is to choose an asshole for a partner. I've got a whole category on my blog about how not to get abused.
As for leering men and hypersexuality, well, welcome to our world! You wanted to be a woman, this is what you signed up for. My friend and I were hypersexualized in Turkey when we visited, because we were unescorted by men, ergo we were Western whores (she ran into it similarly in Egypt). Greek men are also big on leering. I've been racially fetishized by Indian & Middle Eastern men since I moved to Toronto. And yeah, you're going to get hypersexualized by men who have a thing for transgenders - that porn's been popular for decades, I remember the 'shemale' stuff you could get on computer BBS's in the pre-Internet days. I only ever downloaded one or two out of curiosity (I've never been into porn) but I know it's a big fetish for a lot of men, and TG porn is one of the most popular searches everywhere.
The male gaze: No one escapes it!
Who's telling you you don't exist?
>Who's telling you you don't exist?
What we tend to mean when we say that trans identities are erased or treated as if we don't exist is when people treat us as if we are our assigned gender at birth. That is, that trans women are actually men in disguise and trans men are actually women in disguise. So basically what your entire first paragraph is doing. Emphasizing "biological femininity/masculinity" is part of this as well. Perhaps you would like to mean chromosomal status? As in whether or not people have XX or XY chromosomes? Personally I've never had my DNA tested so I can't say for certain what chromosomes I have Admittedly it seems likely that I have XY chromosomes but you never know. Chromosomal abnormalities are more likely than you think, on the order of about 1%. Otherwise, the only "biological" characteristics that separate me from cisgender women are the fact that I dont menstruate, the fact that I can't become pregnant (although womb transplants for trans women are coming.... stay tuned), and the fact that I don't have ovaries. There are plenty of cisgender women who have had hysterectomies or are sterile or don't menstruate, etc. and yet we don't try to say they are not in fact women or that they are some weird third gender/sex. We might call them sterilewomen if we wanted to be really rude and emphasize that they are different from the average. Or we could be respectful and refer to them as "women who have gone through menopause", or "women who cannot get pregnant", or "women who are sterile".
Ok, about criminality now. I could dispute your interpretation of "The Swedish Study" from 2011 which is what I believe you are referencing as it's the only thing I can really find online about the criminality of trans people. But I don't think that's even necessary, and I'll make my point by analogy. It's no great mystery that black people commit crimes at higher rates than white people. This is not because they are worse people, or "inherently predisposed to crime" or anything like that. It's probably mostly just because of socioeconomic disparities between black and white people coupled with fact that poorer people tend to commit more crime than richer people. Obviously it's more complicated than that but for this purpose we'll leave it there. With that out of the way: we don't (anymore....) force black people to use a separate bathroom from white people. It's disrespectful and inhumane. Why force trans women to use a separate bathroom from cis women?
>I don't think you're 'disproportionately' victims of sexual violence, although it may be higher than normal because as I understand it
Quick google search shows that trans people are in fact disproportionately victims of violent crime.
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/
Admittedly, here I'm conflating "violent crime" with "sexual crime" but a more thorough google search would prove my point and I think it's unnecessary.
>Working as a prostitute seems to be a 'milestone' many seem to think they need to pass through in their journey from m2f... I suspect more [trans women] than [trans men] find it a turn-on. Most female sex workers don't want to be doing it and don't find it nearly as 'empowering' as misogynist propaganda would have it.
I have two responses to this: one, there is a big difference between sex work that's mostly done online through an onlyfans kind of thing and sex work that's mostly done offline through meeting clients. I know both people who have done or are currently doing either of those. And I would agree with your sense that in general there seems to be surprisingly large fraction of trans women who engage in or want to engage in the former (online) work. Personally, I think it's partially a reaction to the really jarring change that comes from living part of your life as a man where on average you are deemed undesirable and the in general pursuer of romantic or sexual interactions, and after transitioning trans women very quickly find themselves desirable and in general pursued by others in a romantic or sexual context. So yes, maybe they do find it a turn-on, and that's ok!! But it's pretty hard to be sexually assaulted as a sex worker when your sex work consists of posting nudes on your twitter timeline.
With that said, doing sex work in person sucks. Yeah, it's maybe convenient that you get to choose your own hours, and if you're a professional dominatrix maybe you're a little bit more in control when meeting clients, but that's about it. Many trans people are forced into sex work because they are unable to find full-time work due to discrimination or because they may be unable to cite their pretransition work experience in fear of outing themselves or being accused of fraud if they changed their name. On top of that, many trans people find themselves without parental support which makes a job hunt a whole lot easier. Sex work is the work of last resort for trans people, particularly outside of the US or Canada or parts of Europe, which tend to be more accepting. Personally, I am afraid for my friends who do sex work in person and wish they could enter another profession but it's not that easy.
You touch upon exactly what makes you forever male, at least down deep: Your *gamete*, which, if you have XY chromosomes (if you were born with a penis you're XY) means your body was designed to reproduce by impregnating females. I was born with a vadge & the usual equipment that goes with baby-making; but I intentionally never had a baby, and am now menopausal yet I am still female. And that's what makes transfolk different: Transmen still may get pregnant, or could, but even if they can't via their transition, that's what their bodies were designed for and they'll never produce the sperm they'd need to impregnate someone (I'm not even clear on how well manufactured penii work, anyway - I know they're not always very good for having sex, or enjoying sex, same for repurposed vaginas).
I accept your definition of 'erasing' although I don't think that flies across the board. I think for many transactivists, they go on about 'erasing' transpeople to deflect attention from their very real efforts to erase women via ludicrous language ("people who menstruate" - no, only females menstruate, no transwoman does) and efforts to force women to accept male bodies where they don't belong (we'll just have to agree to disagree on that). If you really think not being allowed in female bathrooms 'erases' you, that's your problem, not ours. You are still a biological man and if you're a big galoot like Will 'Lia' Thomas, you're a huge threat to anyone who doesn't know you. (I intentionally properly gender Will Thomas because I think he's a rank opportunist trying to get to the Olympics via beating a bunch of girls because he sucks in male competition. Also, he's a 6'3" clear male with a dick he *knows* his teammates find threatening. Which he can't understand because *he is a male and males don't understand what it's like growing up female and never will*.
That said, I can take people as they are or want to be as long as they don't try to step on my toes. We all have our self-images we wish others would go along with: I have friends who think they're liberal when in fact they're illiberal; I know tons of fake Christians; I go along with my good friend's daughter's identity as non-binary, and her wife as female, *because I like them*. Even if I didn't know them well, I would go along with it just because it's no skin off my nose how they identify. I'm far less understanding and accepting of fake Christians for the same reason I intensely dislike transactivism: These beliefs and practices harm others. Some of my fake Christian friends claim Christianity but don't walk the walk; but they don't harm others. Now I challenge fake Christians on social media if they support Donald Trump. I also challenge fake liberals who support Hamas's Islamofascism and delight in pointing out to these Nazi-obsessed fake liberals that they have rather a lot in common with Nazis: They wanted to exterminate Jews too.
Which brings me back to my point about 'erasing' transpeople: People, esp on the left, love to project onto others what they prefer (subconsciously) to avoid in themselves, which in this case is their commonality with *some* elements of Nazism; this also includes a love affair with censorship and destroying anyone who doesn't buy into their Holy Dogma.
Same with transfolk and the 'erasure' thing. A lot of these TAs are actively trying to erase womanhood and femaleness so they can argue they belong in places they don't because--sexual fetishism, and possibly a political desire to roll back the gains of feminism.
Now, I can see why you'd think you're 'erased' by 'misgendering' or perhaps 'deadnaming' you. But that's still on *you*. You live on a planet with 8 billion people and you will never be liked, loved, or accepted by all you meet. Even the Dalai Lama has enemies and he is pretty arguably one of the nicest, kindest, most humane people on the planet.
I could pitch a fuss if I wanted to every time a man disrespected me or shouted me down or mansplained; many women, including feminists, allow this to happen. I've developed the resilience to laugh it off, shrug it off, or tell him to STFU. It's *my* job to manage *my* emotions and feelings; it's a Big Lie of the left that feelings are other peoples' burden to manage.
So honestly, Julia, if you *allow* people to make you feel less-than if they use the wrong pronouns, then it's on *you* to learn how to deal with it. They're probably *trying* to denigrate you, so piss them off by not losing your mind. Or, they might simply feel they have to speak truth, and if they believe you're not intrinsically a man, they may insist on calling you he/him.
You can't change them, only yourself.
As for the bathroom stuff, racially separated bathrooms were *always* about sending a message that black people were 'less than', as were the fountains and all that (who ever got assaulted by a black person while taking a drink? We don't separate bathrooms racially anymore because it's discriminatory. But we don't allow black men in ladies' rooms, not because they're black but because they're men. And the research I refer to is a growing pile of research on the higher potential for violence in men. Very little changes in that regard with transition. I'll dig up the link I usually use when I reference it in my work if you like. Today I'm off to the States for Thanksgiving so I may not be around here for the next few days but I do like talking to you, you're interesting.
And if by some weird stroke of coincidence we ever met up, I'd treat you as a woman. Might even not care if we used the ladies' together if I thought you weren't dangerous. Hey, there are male friends I'd sleep in the same room with because I know they're not dangerous; I would never agree to that with strange men or ones I didn't know well unless there were other women in the room. That's something you still don't understand because it's easier to change your body than your brain, and your brain IS rife with male neurocircuitry. But that's a convo for after the holiday :) Hope you have a great Thanksgiving!
I think that the idea of people being "forever male" or "forever female" is restrictive and not helpful. And these categories are socially constructed, so we can change them whenever we want. But for the sake of argument I'll use them. These categories refer to chromosomal sex, not gender. Gender happens when people look at or otherwise perceive another person and read them as a man or woman. Chromosomal sex and gender are obviously highly correlated but one does not determine the other. When you walk past someone on the street and gender them as male or female, you don't see their chromosomes; you usually don't see their genitalia. It's all just their secondary sex characteristics and to a lesser extent outfit and mannerisms.
It also doesn't really mean anything to say people were "designed" for one purpose or another. Unless you're religious, in which case it's reasonable to say that people were designed to worship god or whatever, that's fine. But I'm an atheist and I believe that people have no essential purpose just by being born -- we exist first and then we create meaning and purpose for ourselves. And, if we take our evolutionary imperatives to their natural conclusions, I think we'll live in a world that would not be very fun. No birth control and a whole lot more sexual assault. Our purpose would just be: make as many offspring as physically possible by whatever means necessary. I choose to believe that people are capable of nobler pursuits.
I sympathize with your point that new language such as "pregnant people" seems like it may erase women. But this language isn't made to accommodate trans women, it's made to accommodate trans men. Trans men can get pregnant and menstruate, and in situations where we want to say something about people who menstruate, e.g. "Free tampons/pads for all people who menstruate!" we don't want to limit that to cis women. Trans men shouldn't be excluded. We can also think of other examples that usually go the other way: "people get prostate cancer", "people who ejaculate", "people who have a penis". These statements may seem like they erase men, but if we say instead "only men get prostate cancer", we exclude trans women.
I won't address your point about Lia Thomas because I've already said that I don't have strong opinions about trans women in women's sports.
I don't need to be loved or even liked by most people. I'm really just asking to be accepted. We like to think of America as a liberal country, where many different kinds of people can live together even though they may privately disagree with each other. And that's what acceptance is. It's not harassing someone on the street because they look gay or muslim or christian or black. Now I know that that may be a tall order in the world we live in, for trans people to not be harassed on the street. But it's a pretty basic goal that I think all liberal people can get on board with.
Back to the bathroom stuff...: isn't excluding trans people from their preferred bathrooms *also* about sending a message that trans people are "less than"? That we are less female than cis women. Or that trans men are less male than cis men. And I use that in the gendered sense, not the sexual sense. Having ovaries or testicles doesn't make you less female or male than anyone else, as hard as that is to wrap your head around. I want to use the words "feminine" or "masculine" perhaps but there exist very masculine women and vice versa so language limits me here. I'm fine with not allowing men in women's restrooms and vice versa! But the stopping point here is that I believe trans women are women and trans men are men and I think you disagree with that fundamental point.
By the way, I would like to see the link that you referred to.
Exactly. We all need to look hard in the mirror before we condemn anyone else.
Stay safe, my friend. Hope to meet you again soon.
You continue to amaze me with your “Let ‘‘em have it” attitude. Nobody can escape your censure unless they adhere to genuine humanist and common sense values. You might look extreme to some, but one day, if we all wake up to something resembling reality, we will be considering ideas like yours. Then the true discussion can begin.
The gloves are off with the woke and it's mano-a-mano now that so many of them support mass slaughter. It amazes me, after their years of Nazi obsession, identifying anyone who disagrees with them as a Nazi, that they have met the enemy and he is them. You'd think their scientifically bankrupt, feminist-uncritical acceptance of transgender pablum would have done flagged wokeism for the dangerous idiotology it is, but no. What I want them to grasp is that it's never been just right wing nuts who resisted and challenged rhem; many on the left have too, quietly, because these dangerous progressive fascists had too much power to destroy. Now we see them for what they are: The enemy in the mirror. We hate most in others what we hate in ourselves.