COVID-19 spotlighted political polarization and how you can't trust 'reliable sources' or even 'the science' when even the scientists were biased and censorship-crazed
A very interesting and fair article, here in the UK we didn't have anything like the divisive "politics" you describe - for example around masking, and then vaccination. There were only ever a miniscule number of people actively opposed to masking, lockdowns, or to vaccinations.
We have taken a good hard look at the impact of school closures in the UK since the pandemic, and there's definitely a hope that we could do something different in a future pandemic. But in the real world - where infection rates spiked every time we reopened schools, where children go home to multi- generation families containing the adults who are most likely to die - I think we would support school closures again. Our housing and demographics are what they are.
Also the British don't have a problem with scientists and public officials giving the messages they did, when they did. (even if we know now they were less certain than they publicly appeared to be, and even if in hindsight they could have gone another way sometimes - with the resulting risks). A pandemic is a War, and as long as they are acting in good faith we will always forgive the public officials who lie by omission, who run propaganda campaigns in wartime, to keep society in line while we defeat "the enemy". In Britain we have the historical experience of dealing with an existential society-wide threat, it's in the living memory of our elders. We expect people to put society before personal freedoms in those times, and to trust authority. So the British pulled together - and we're still proud of it.
I see much of the American anguished debate - about whether certain information was properly withheld at certain times, about whether a person was "lied to" - as, well, immature and unserious. A cultural difference? Many of the comments already made on your article show the impossible nature of the politics in the USA. I worry for your future public health if another pandemic arrives, and I imagine that your country's enemies are content to see Americans weaken public trust in their own science.
Your point about the differing demographics in the UK--more old people living with extended families--is interesting. It's something to consider, what the kids bring home to their families even if it doesn't do lasting harm to themselves or kill them. So the British have a somewhat different take on the necessity for closing the schools. Have y'all discussed since then how you can better prepare for another pandemic, and not let kids fall behind with Zoom classes that, at least here in North America and elsewhere, were massive failures?
I am pretty disenchanted with my mother country, and unfortunately my adopted country (Canada) seems in danger of going down the same path. Things may change in the current political climate as the US is seen more as a threat than it was a few months ago, and I'm hoping it directs Canadian attention to *real* problems we have--housing, immigration, high prices, and an ally we can no longer count on--rather than the nonsense the prevailing Liberal party focused on before--LGBTQ rights, which hold outsized attention for a comparatively small group, and protecting Canadians from free speech <eyeroll>.
I suspect if another pandemic breaks out, though, Canada might be in a better position to handle it than before, and we didn't do a terrible job last time--lots of room for improvement, but we mostly lost old people and the immunocompromised--it took us much more time to reach a thousand deaths, and much much longer than the US to hit five figures (I used to count it in 'Vietnams' - one Vietnam = 50,000 American deaths). After the US hit 500,000--ten little Vietnams--I began thinking maybe I should start counting in Hiroshima units (400,000).
When we tried reopening the schools in the UK (pre-vaccine) we had very stringent anti-infection controls inside the schools - alternating days with year-groups separated, full masking, restricted movement around school, even daily covid testing on school premises. Teachers were also willing to teach (face to face) students preparing for key exams, other years were not invited back. I think we would build on that experience. One of the worst outcomes here for children has been the number of children who have not returned to full time education at all, many of whom were in "vulnerable" categories due to family stress or risk of abuse. So I think we would be prioritising continuing attendance at school for that category of children, if we have another pandemic
However that needs to be done. I can't speak for the UK, but the US doesn't seem to take education very seriously anymore. I could foresee a future in which we don't bother with it at all.
Covid vaccines "kept you out of the morgue," except for all those people it killed, and those many young men who "died suddenly" and with no explanation. That's not even counting those it injured. And you can't ignore the fact they were injecting children who still are rarely getting infected with it. If the vaccine works that great, why do they keep making new formulations? I mean, we don't get MMR shots every year. This article is rife with incorrect information, for both sides. But let's not forget, it was the left who censored scientists, parents, and anyonee who questioned. And it was the left who took away medical freedom and forced vaccinations on workers.
There was an awful lot to the book I didn't get into. It was a long book and this was one of my longest posts, and yeah, I chose not to add too much about the people who were adversely affected by the vaccines for space's sake. I encourage people to read the book; it's really quite good. But, it kept far more people out of the morgues than were put in. I don't know why it required so many iterations, even the flu shot is a once-a-year thing, but I stopped getting them when it became clear they weren't necessary anymore. Vaccinating children for sure was a stupid idea since they weren't getting dying the way old people and people with co-morbidities were (we seemed awfully reluctant to talk about how much obesity raised one's risks of complications and death re COVID). And yes, the left is hideously guilty of censorship and should be called out for it. But the right engaged in their own forms of censorship too, like DeSantis docking the pay of school board members who supported mask mandates. And it was mostly the right that attacked people wearing masks.
I know a lot of folks don't like hearing about what *their* side got wrong...
I didn't say he did. Go back and read what I read, and check the link, which is to Snopes specifying exactly what he did do--ask the task force if you can do that.
Yeah, same as "Good people on both sides" and all the other statements taken out of context. Same as Russia Collusion, Ukraine bribery, January 6 insurrection, "Threat to Democracy", ad infinitum.
I'm disappointed in him. I have a lot of respect for most of his career and I also have his book Reporter in my stack o' books to be read. He just went off the deep end toward the end, but it doesn't negate a lifetime of investigative work, esp unearthing the My Lai Massacre back during the Vietnam war.
A very interesting and fair article, here in the UK we didn't have anything like the divisive "politics" you describe - for example around masking, and then vaccination. There were only ever a miniscule number of people actively opposed to masking, lockdowns, or to vaccinations.
We have taken a good hard look at the impact of school closures in the UK since the pandemic, and there's definitely a hope that we could do something different in a future pandemic. But in the real world - where infection rates spiked every time we reopened schools, where children go home to multi- generation families containing the adults who are most likely to die - I think we would support school closures again. Our housing and demographics are what they are.
Also the British don't have a problem with scientists and public officials giving the messages they did, when they did. (even if we know now they were less certain than they publicly appeared to be, and even if in hindsight they could have gone another way sometimes - with the resulting risks). A pandemic is a War, and as long as they are acting in good faith we will always forgive the public officials who lie by omission, who run propaganda campaigns in wartime, to keep society in line while we defeat "the enemy". In Britain we have the historical experience of dealing with an existential society-wide threat, it's in the living memory of our elders. We expect people to put society before personal freedoms in those times, and to trust authority. So the British pulled together - and we're still proud of it.
I see much of the American anguished debate - about whether certain information was properly withheld at certain times, about whether a person was "lied to" - as, well, immature and unserious. A cultural difference? Many of the comments already made on your article show the impossible nature of the politics in the USA. I worry for your future public health if another pandemic arrives, and I imagine that your country's enemies are content to see Americans weaken public trust in their own science.
Your point about the differing demographics in the UK--more old people living with extended families--is interesting. It's something to consider, what the kids bring home to their families even if it doesn't do lasting harm to themselves or kill them. So the British have a somewhat different take on the necessity for closing the schools. Have y'all discussed since then how you can better prepare for another pandemic, and not let kids fall behind with Zoom classes that, at least here in North America and elsewhere, were massive failures?
I am pretty disenchanted with my mother country, and unfortunately my adopted country (Canada) seems in danger of going down the same path. Things may change in the current political climate as the US is seen more as a threat than it was a few months ago, and I'm hoping it directs Canadian attention to *real* problems we have--housing, immigration, high prices, and an ally we can no longer count on--rather than the nonsense the prevailing Liberal party focused on before--LGBTQ rights, which hold outsized attention for a comparatively small group, and protecting Canadians from free speech <eyeroll>.
I suspect if another pandemic breaks out, though, Canada might be in a better position to handle it than before, and we didn't do a terrible job last time--lots of room for improvement, but we mostly lost old people and the immunocompromised--it took us much more time to reach a thousand deaths, and much much longer than the US to hit five figures (I used to count it in 'Vietnams' - one Vietnam = 50,000 American deaths). After the US hit 500,000--ten little Vietnams--I began thinking maybe I should start counting in Hiroshima units (400,000).
When we tried reopening the schools in the UK (pre-vaccine) we had very stringent anti-infection controls inside the schools - alternating days with year-groups separated, full masking, restricted movement around school, even daily covid testing on school premises. Teachers were also willing to teach (face to face) students preparing for key exams, other years were not invited back. I think we would build on that experience. One of the worst outcomes here for children has been the number of children who have not returned to full time education at all, many of whom were in "vulnerable" categories due to family stress or risk of abuse. So I think we would be prioritising continuing attendance at school for that category of children, if we have another pandemic
However that needs to be done. I can't speak for the UK, but the US doesn't seem to take education very seriously anymore. I could foresee a future in which we don't bother with it at all.
Covid vaccines "kept you out of the morgue," except for all those people it killed, and those many young men who "died suddenly" and with no explanation. That's not even counting those it injured. And you can't ignore the fact they were injecting children who still are rarely getting infected with it. If the vaccine works that great, why do they keep making new formulations? I mean, we don't get MMR shots every year. This article is rife with incorrect information, for both sides. But let's not forget, it was the left who censored scientists, parents, and anyonee who questioned. And it was the left who took away medical freedom and forced vaccinations on workers.
There was an awful lot to the book I didn't get into. It was a long book and this was one of my longest posts, and yeah, I chose not to add too much about the people who were adversely affected by the vaccines for space's sake. I encourage people to read the book; it's really quite good. But, it kept far more people out of the morgues than were put in. I don't know why it required so many iterations, even the flu shot is a once-a-year thing, but I stopped getting them when it became clear they weren't necessary anymore. Vaccinating children for sure was a stupid idea since they weren't getting dying the way old people and people with co-morbidities were (we seemed awfully reluctant to talk about how much obesity raised one's risks of complications and death re COVID). And yes, the left is hideously guilty of censorship and should be called out for it. But the right engaged in their own forms of censorship too, like DeSantis docking the pay of school board members who supported mask mandates. And it was mostly the right that attacked people wearing masks.
I know a lot of folks don't like hearing about what *their* side got wrong...
Trump never said to inject bleach.
I didn't say he did. Go back and read what I read, and check the link, which is to Snopes specifying exactly what he did do--ask the task force if you can do that.
It's funny how people keep pulling that out. Totally taken out of context, but when it fits a narrative....
As you have just done. Check the link, as I advised PSW.
Yeah, same as "Good people on both sides" and all the other statements taken out of context. Same as Russia Collusion, Ukraine bribery, January 6 insurrection, "Threat to Democracy", ad infinitum.
As you have just done. Check the link, as I advised PSW.
😐 you don’t respect Seymour Hersh? You don’t mention that Fauci lied about the origin of the virus and the GDB authors. He wasn’t wrong, he lied.
I'm disappointed in him. I have a lot of respect for most of his career and I also have his book Reporter in my stack o' books to be read. He just went off the deep end toward the end, but it doesn't negate a lifetime of investigative work, esp unearthing the My Lai Massacre back during the Vietnam war.
And now one of the authors of the GBD has Fauci's job. If that's not karma. I love it!
In the end, truth always comes out!