Nice article but I don't know what the "liberal" in "bad liberal" could possibly mean. Does it mean "classical liberal" of the kind Jordan Peterson claims to be? That's considered right-wing now. I think you are using "liberal" in the American sense of "on the left", but what are those lefty commitments today?
I'm going with the 'liberal' definition that seems to be popular across Substack and, frankly, my own historical understanding of it. I've been a liberal my entire life and for me, it's always been about tolerance, exclusion, letting people live their lives as they like as long as they're not harming or infringing on the rights of others, and thinking rationally and with reason in the manner of the philosophes of the Enlightenment (esp Voltaire, my fave). I think that differs a bit from classical liberalism in its original inception, but this *is* the 21st century and John Stuart Mill has been gone for awhile ;) Honestly, Elizabeth? I think the *real* 'bad liberals' are the illiberals now who have embraced all the things I've historically disavowed: Racism, sexism, homophobia, censorship, and pseudoscience. What the illiberals are calling 'right wing' now is IMO (and many others') traditional, 20th century liberalism which, because it's not endlessly tolerant as the illiberal wokes have become, looks intolerant to them. And they equate the right with intolerance, failing to see how much they've become exactly like that. And of course not all of the right is intolerant. I know plenty of conservatives who are sane, level-headed people.
Of course, for the sake of humour I called us 'bad liberals' because the woke illiberals think they're progressive...and liberal...and they're wrong on both counts, IMO.
Hmmmmm. Sounds like we could go off into a discussion of what "liberal" means that could get very time consuming and not very productive. Breaking it down. Back to first principles, this or that definition and then a lot of semantics and historical as well as regional context. I wouldn't be up for that as I'm more interested in new ideas coming down the turnpike.
Have you read or listened to Mary Harrington at all?
Helen Pluckrose has recently joined Substack and you would probably like what she does a lot.
I love Helen and exchanged with her a lot when we were both on Twitter. I attempted to support her through her burn out and health issues. She left Twitter for a while and during her absence, I was permanently banned from Twitter. Before that happened, she was disappointed to discover that I counted myself amongst the reactionary feminists à la Mary Harrington, if I remember correctly. I can't go back to see what that disagreement was about because I can't access my banned Twitter account.
I saw she had joined Substack and thought you might resonate with her work. Did you already know of her or did I introduce you?
I don't know what I think of her liminary article yet, it will take me some time and I just woke up. Right now it's 4 a.m. for me. My mind is a bit soggy with sleep so I should either get up and start my day or get back to sleep.
I was banned after Elon took over and not for saying anything about trans women. After all those years of careful language and civil discourse (by Twitter standards), I got banned for defending France. It was after a terrorist attack here (we have so many, I can’t even remember which one it was) and another tweets got on to say, in summary, that France deserved such attacks because of its colonialism in Africa and yada yada… the same old guilt tripping schtick, to which I respond in a quote tweet, “French mothers, slit the throats of your children now! Why wait for the righteous to do it to pay for France’s sins?” or something along those lines. I was just attempting to show by the absurdity all the fallacies in the other person’s discourse. So, I was banned for “inciting violence,” as if I had actually meant it. Banned permanently without recourse.
Also maybe side question, does anyone knows any channels, groups or something (like Telegram, Parler) for Bad Liberals to communicate? I tried Threads, Lemmy but anything you post there, has to be in line with the official agenda, when you try dicuss anything real, others will shut you up. Is there some normal group, which would made some coffee meetings or really discuss something like was normal few years back?
Well you're on one right now...Substack! Yes, Explorer, you're right, it's hard to find forums anymore where you can have adult conversations without being shouted down. I wrote an article about which platforms censor and which don't. But, they may still try to shout you down. There are other issues to consider too, like how secure they are (Telegram, WhatsApp) or prone to propaganda (TikTok), or perhaps being watched by the government (Parler, Gab if it's still around, not sure what Lemmy is). I pretty much stick with Substack because it's about the only platform left that doesn't censor unless you REALLY step out of line...when some complained about Nazis on Substack earlier this year they kicked off a few really egregious ones and left most of them on (which I'm okay with, esp since finding Nazis on Substack is actually quite difficult which I also wrote about lol).
But seriously, I find Substack to be the most open place to debate. Have you been here long? Notes is kind of like Substack's Twitter except it's not run by an emotionally unstable megalomaniac. Opening chat with your subscribers is another way to have intelligent conversations. I mean, there are flamers and extremists on Substack but honestly, I think they have as hard a time finding people like me as I had trying to find Nazis :)
There may be video chats here you can take part in too, although I haven't gotten into them myself. I've gone underground :)
This is the article I wrote about the online platforms and social media and censorship:
Most of them are 'woke', the right-wing forums don't censor as much but they'll probably still beat your ass for disagreeing :) and anyway, if you find another good place to debate let me know ;)
I am with you - bad Liberal and my sign is very simple, I waer on bag bump sticker with simple "I love coffee". No political message, just that I can read and I like coffee, usually the Woke Liberals can't stop to put there flags or political symbols. But yes, we need to take liberalism back and clean it from the evil power hungry people.
I love this SO much. Right there with you. Not voting for Trump or Harris either. Would love there to be some secret handshake so we could all recognize each other!
Both parties have gone insane, just on different issues.
Democrats believe in open borders that destroy working class wages, and increase housing costs when we can’t house our own citizens.
They believe that people can change their biological sex an impossibility that destroys the rights of women to privacy and safety in their restrooms, locker rooms and prisons . They allow men in women’s sports which eliminates fair competition.
They encourage the mutilation and sterilization of children who would likely grow up to be gay in pursuit of the unattainable and obscenely call it “gender affirming care”.
They encourage homelessness and crime by refusing to say no to destructive behavior of the mentally ill (who deserve custodial care), the drug addicted and, of course, the criminal class.
They discriminate against whites, Asians and men in a futile attempt to compensate for past discrimination against others.
They are currently led by a vacuous, word salad spouting, not that smart person.
Republicans deny the climate change that threatens humanity.
They denounce the vaccines that reduce deaths from disease.
They believe that a single cell ( . ) is a 👶 which can destroy a woman's future.
They support an ignorant, bullying sociopath who is increasingly showing signs of dementia for president.
Got my 'overseas' mail-in ballot yesterday in email. Don't tell Donald Trump. He'll put out a hit on me and accuse me of being dead or something.
Anyway, I'm pleased to note there are three other choices besides Dem/Rep. So I'm going to look into those before I send it back. There's the Greens, the Libertarians, and the Kennedy & something option. I uh, guess they didn't have time to change the ballot before he dropped out?
Kennedy has made a statement about that. He has encouraged people to vote for him where he's on the ballot in "safe" red or blue states so that he can still have some independent clout and finances but to vote Trump in so-called swing states.
Actually, I'm leaning toward the Libertarian candidate, Oliver Chase. I like some of what he stands for, not all of it, but he seems to be the least 'woke' candidate and Kennedy is just...freakin' weird. The apple has fallen so far from the tree.
I wasn't suggesting you vote for him. I was just explaining why he is still on your ballot even though he has endorsed Trump. I believe there is at least one swing state that refused to take him off the ballot and don't know what state you are voting in, nor do I have the detailed state by state breakdown.
Nice article but I don't know what the "liberal" in "bad liberal" could possibly mean. Does it mean "classical liberal" of the kind Jordan Peterson claims to be? That's considered right-wing now. I think you are using "liberal" in the American sense of "on the left", but what are those lefty commitments today?
I'm going with the 'liberal' definition that seems to be popular across Substack and, frankly, my own historical understanding of it. I've been a liberal my entire life and for me, it's always been about tolerance, exclusion, letting people live their lives as they like as long as they're not harming or infringing on the rights of others, and thinking rationally and with reason in the manner of the philosophes of the Enlightenment (esp Voltaire, my fave). I think that differs a bit from classical liberalism in its original inception, but this *is* the 21st century and John Stuart Mill has been gone for awhile ;) Honestly, Elizabeth? I think the *real* 'bad liberals' are the illiberals now who have embraced all the things I've historically disavowed: Racism, sexism, homophobia, censorship, and pseudoscience. What the illiberals are calling 'right wing' now is IMO (and many others') traditional, 20th century liberalism which, because it's not endlessly tolerant as the illiberal wokes have become, looks intolerant to them. And they equate the right with intolerance, failing to see how much they've become exactly like that. And of course not all of the right is intolerant. I know plenty of conservatives who are sane, level-headed people.
Of course, for the sake of humour I called us 'bad liberals' because the woke illiberals think they're progressive...and liberal...and they're wrong on both counts, IMO.
Hmmmmm. Sounds like we could go off into a discussion of what "liberal" means that could get very time consuming and not very productive. Breaking it down. Back to first principles, this or that definition and then a lot of semantics and historical as well as regional context. I wouldn't be up for that as I'm more interested in new ideas coming down the turnpike.
Have you read or listened to Mary Harrington at all?
Helen Pluckrose has recently joined Substack and you would probably like what she does a lot.
I just shared her killer article on liberalism and what it really stands for. Have you seen it? What are your thoughts on her definition?
I love Helen and exchanged with her a lot when we were both on Twitter. I attempted to support her through her burn out and health issues. She left Twitter for a while and during her absence, I was permanently banned from Twitter. Before that happened, she was disappointed to discover that I counted myself amongst the reactionary feminists à la Mary Harrington, if I remember correctly. I can't go back to see what that disagreement was about because I can't access my banned Twitter account.
I saw she had joined Substack and thought you might resonate with her work. Did you already know of her or did I introduce you?
I don't know what I think of her liminary article yet, it will take me some time and I just woke up. Right now it's 4 a.m. for me. My mind is a bit soggy with sleep so I should either get up and start my day or get back to sleep.
Are you still banned from Twitter? I assume your ban was during the pre-Elon era? Maybe Elon will let you back.
I was banned after Elon took over and not for saying anything about trans women. After all those years of careful language and civil discourse (by Twitter standards), I got banned for defending France. It was after a terrorist attack here (we have so many, I can’t even remember which one it was) and another tweets got on to say, in summary, that France deserved such attacks because of its colonialism in Africa and yada yada… the same old guilt tripping schtick, to which I respond in a quote tweet, “French mothers, slit the throats of your children now! Why wait for the righteous to do it to pay for France’s sins?” or something along those lines. I was just attempting to show by the absurdity all the fallacies in the other person’s discourse. So, I was banned for “inciting violence,” as if I had actually meant it. Banned permanently without recourse.
Generally speaking, I tend to be more radical than Helen in most things.
Great article.
Also maybe side question, does anyone knows any channels, groups or something (like Telegram, Parler) for Bad Liberals to communicate? I tried Threads, Lemmy but anything you post there, has to be in line with the official agenda, when you try dicuss anything real, others will shut you up. Is there some normal group, which would made some coffee meetings or really discuss something like was normal few years back?
Well you're on one right now...Substack! Yes, Explorer, you're right, it's hard to find forums anymore where you can have adult conversations without being shouted down. I wrote an article about which platforms censor and which don't. But, they may still try to shout you down. There are other issues to consider too, like how secure they are (Telegram, WhatsApp) or prone to propaganda (TikTok), or perhaps being watched by the government (Parler, Gab if it's still around, not sure what Lemmy is). I pretty much stick with Substack because it's about the only platform left that doesn't censor unless you REALLY step out of line...when some complained about Nazis on Substack earlier this year they kicked off a few really egregious ones and left most of them on (which I'm okay with, esp since finding Nazis on Substack is actually quite difficult which I also wrote about lol).
But seriously, I find Substack to be the most open place to debate. Have you been here long? Notes is kind of like Substack's Twitter except it's not run by an emotionally unstable megalomaniac. Opening chat with your subscribers is another way to have intelligent conversations. I mean, there are flamers and extremists on Substack but honestly, I think they have as hard a time finding people like me as I had trying to find Nazis :)
There may be video chats here you can take part in too, although I haven't gotten into them myself. I've gone underground :)
This is the article I wrote about the online platforms and social media and censorship:
https://growsomelabia.substack.com/p/which-online-platforms-dont-censor
Most of them are 'woke', the right-wing forums don't censor as much but they'll probably still beat your ass for disagreeing :) and anyway, if you find another good place to debate let me know ;)
We are legion.
I am with you - bad Liberal and my sign is very simple, I waer on bag bump sticker with simple "I love coffee". No political message, just that I can read and I like coffee, usually the Woke Liberals can't stop to put there flags or political symbols. But yes, we need to take liberalism back and clean it from the evil power hungry people.
I love this SO much. Right there with you. Not voting for Trump or Harris either. Would love there to be some secret handshake so we could all recognize each other!
Yeah but the problem would be that the wokes would figure it out and then cancel us all ;)
How about *this* t-shirt? Or is it too subtle? :)
https://www.teeshirtpalace.com/products/wdf2649938-woke-definition-funny-anti-woke-saying-anti-woke-t-shirt
Both parties have gone insane, just on different issues.
Democrats believe in open borders that destroy working class wages, and increase housing costs when we can’t house our own citizens.
They believe that people can change their biological sex an impossibility that destroys the rights of women to privacy and safety in their restrooms, locker rooms and prisons . They allow men in women’s sports which eliminates fair competition.
They encourage the mutilation and sterilization of children who would likely grow up to be gay in pursuit of the unattainable and obscenely call it “gender affirming care”.
They encourage homelessness and crime by refusing to say no to destructive behavior of the mentally ill (who deserve custodial care), the drug addicted and, of course, the criminal class.
They discriminate against whites, Asians and men in a futile attempt to compensate for past discrimination against others.
They are currently led by a vacuous, word salad spouting, not that smart person.
Republicans deny the climate change that threatens humanity.
They denounce the vaccines that reduce deaths from disease.
They believe that a single cell ( . ) is a 👶 which can destroy a woman's future.
They support an ignorant, bullying sociopath who is increasingly showing signs of dementia for president.
A pox on both their houses.
Got my 'overseas' mail-in ballot yesterday in email. Don't tell Donald Trump. He'll put out a hit on me and accuse me of being dead or something.
Anyway, I'm pleased to note there are three other choices besides Dem/Rep. So I'm going to look into those before I send it back. There's the Greens, the Libertarians, and the Kennedy & something option. I uh, guess they didn't have time to change the ballot before he dropped out?
Kennedy has made a statement about that. He has encouraged people to vote for him where he's on the ballot in "safe" red or blue states so that he can still have some independent clout and finances but to vote Trump in so-called swing states.
Actually, I'm leaning toward the Libertarian candidate, Oliver Chase. I like some of what he stands for, not all of it, but he seems to be the least 'woke' candidate and Kennedy is just...freakin' weird. The apple has fallen so far from the tree.
I wasn't suggesting you vote for him. I was just explaining why he is still on your ballot even though he has endorsed Trump. I believe there is at least one swing state that refused to take him off the ballot and don't know what state you are voting in, nor do I have the detailed state by state breakdown.
Haha, I think you're the most woke.
LOL, you're woker than I am! You're so woke if someone puts a Harry Potter book on the table in front of you it bursts into flames ;)